First let me preface my comments by stating that I have not heard a lot of high end DACs in my system. ), Chord Hugo 2 Review (Portable DAC & HP Amp), DAC Noise Modulation: Chord DAVE vs Topping DX7 Pro+, Digital To Analog (DAC) Reviews and Discussion, Amplifiers, Phono preamp, and Analog Audio Review. A Chord DAC converts to analog via Chord's "Pulse Array DAC" which is a discrete circuit, similar to the discrete circuit used in the MSB DACs (but not the same). but with digital things change quickly, and a month ago I got a new server, the SGM Extreme. in this forum and they are all very good dacs. Still would like to listen to the Soulution 760 DAC, Mola Mola DAC, Trinity DAC, MSB Select DAC, and maybe the Light Harmonic Da Vinci DAC, Gryphon Kalliope DAC, TotalDAC of some kind, Phasure NOS1A DAC, Esoteric Grandioso DAC, TAD DA1000 DAC, Audionet DAC, Chord Dave DAC . Thats not allthe CNC unibody aluminum chassis provides the discrete power supply with optimal thermal performance and an elegant design aesthetic. Of course your opinion on sound quality is your own, and valid, but to suggest that the reason for the difference is because the Chord is an "FPGA DAC" is technically incorrect. Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile. Were constantly improving digital input modules to stay at the forefront of the high-end audio industry, ensuring youre always equipped with the most current digital file formats and interfaces. Over the air updates will ensure that your renderer always has the latest capabilities and ultimate convenience. Tellurium Silver Diamond USB and Chord Blu. Thank you, Mike. However, to get this level of separation and detail within the soundscape the DAC is clearly having a very important role to play. Then we have the Integrated Clock module and Im starting to get the whole modular approach to the design of the MSB DAC. those surpass any other digital choice. Can I ask how you procured all those DACs? lastly; what I compare my MSB Select II to every day is my top level vinyl and top level reel to reel tape. has 20 hours on it. None, despite working back as I always do if theres an issue! I agree with your statement. The other issue is preference. Theres just a sense that with the MSB in the line that everything is timed correctly and rock solid. I have a PS Audio DSD ATM and it is also on the warm side which is good, but I'm thinking I need something more neutral due to my speakers being fairly warm and full bodied in their own right to take my system to the next level. the North American distributors for Rockna so I thought I would jump in on this SoundLab A1Px's, ARC REF40, VTL Siegfired II, cj GAT2, cj ART, DCS Vivaldi 2.0 stack, Taiko Audio SGM Extreme, TechDas AF1+ , Graham Phamtom III, Sumiko Palo Santos, vdH Black Beauty, ARC Phono 3, Studer A80, Crystal Dreamline, Transparent Audio Ref XL digital and Ref Gen V power cables, CenterStage footers, Nordost Qkore6' s and QB8's! Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator, https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/absolute-top-tier-dac-for-standard-res-redbook-cd. Looking forward to the your additions to the list. 1 - MSB Discrete 2 - dCS Bartok 3 - Mola Mola Tambaqui 4 - Chord DAVE (add the M Scaler later) 5 - Keep my Ayre QX-5 Twenty, do nothing Thanks! Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator. Still, it's the way I prefer at this stage. If you go reference you will never look back. Thanks for the interesting reply, cmarin. So yes it's a question of being polite, but it's also about acknowledging the limitations inherent in making absolute pronouncements about differences between high performing components. You must log in or register to reply here. Let us do the work of refurbishing and finding your current electronics a new hometheyll continue to be enjoyed for years to come. Check out the awards + accolades. It's easy! Strangely, this new review is not displayed when you select the review folder on the homepage. Who knows ?! Also; recently MSB introduced a new interface that optimizes USB and adds fibre to reduce noise, the MSB Pro USB. @ricred1, I would like to suggest you take a look at the Mola Mola Tambaqui when it arrives later this month I understand. As I listen to this tune a few times it strikes me that the Discrete is just that (discrete), it doesnt seem to add a great deal of itself to the file it is playing. However, there are also products that manage to straddle both sides of the electric fence (whilst being careful not to electrocute their nether regions) and give us a tremendously enjoyable reproduction of a recording whilst remaining true to the source material. Although I would like to keep this as close to $10-12K as possible. Oppo Modwright BDP-205 full mod. The MSB simply sounded more real to my ears and offered a more convincing soundstage and tonality and all the tiny informations in the music where integrated in the musical flow whereas the DAVE simply sounded flat and not realistic to my ears and even lacked those tiny informations. I do however like the i2S connection better than any other Whatever, the Discrete is a superb bit of kit that Id really love to take up residence in the system on a permanent basis, but thats not going to happen. I submit dealers use the statement "component X competes against much more expensive components" far too often. When a dealer post something you have to take it with a enormous grain of salt. I would say go for one of the other MSB ModelsThe Reference is half of the Select dac and the premier and discrete dacs are stunning performers for their price level Just in case it's not obvious, toetapaudio is a Mola Mola Dealer. Always use!! Then just stay with the basic Premier unit, and the power supply that comes with it. Any owners around here? 5 other people who only have 2 things in common with our system. Get a Lampi Golden Gate Dac and match it with the RK5u4g rectifier and PX25 DHTs or the RK242 DHT. Rori is definitely welcome. Can't beat the form factor of it though, great for off a desk top. Firstly, that was a very impressive list of high end components you have listened to. Ill go through the modules included in the Discrete DAC and explain a little about each. With two prime DACs, the MSB Discrete yields an unprecedented level of detail that reproduces the musicality, soundstage and texture of an original performance, bringing the artist to you. It will kick your ass. November 11, 2020 in Digital Sources, DACs, and Computer Audio. And the Jeff Rowland Aeris DAC with new PSU. The lo-res display also makes menu ]set-up fiddly because it doesn't have enough space to display words. I don't want to waste hifi shops time too much knowing I'll be going second hand either. Of those, I've only heard the DAVE. The dCS Bartok was also interesting but, based on my research, I kept coming back to Bricasti. It would be absolute suicide for an audio distributor to I'm doing this off the top of my head. Looks like your budget goes up to ~$20k? The Pro USB was developed to offer a multi part USB solution that features complete electrical isolation and all the performance of MSBs proprietary Pro ISL input. I have Chord Dave and Blu2 too. Like a true audiophile with "issues", I'm saying to myself, if at $8300 Many of these were already in a shootout on Audiogon with the same requirements - has to sound stellar on 16/44.1 tracks: I agree that the DAVE plus Blu 2 is spectacular, but not in a "hi fi" sense. Aurender W20-> Lampizator Pacific SE -> Ayon Crossfire III or Circle Labs A100 -> Avantgarde Acoustic Trio LE 26 with 4x REL Carbon Special ,SACD Player: Audio Aero La Fontaine. MSB DACs also use a processing chip to handle oversampling and digital filtering (not sure if this chip is an FPGA or other type processing chip, but it is a high speed digital processing chip). Well, you may not have heard a lot of high-end DAC's in your system, but the one's you've listed are pretty darned good. I'll take a look, however I've heard they're on the warm side? UPnP Protocol other dacs I have enjoyedin no particular order; I would not call this second tier; but I prefer what hear from my Select II to what Ive heard from these. Putting price aside, what are your thoughts about the Hugo TT as an integrated DAC+amp? The LED display, slaved to the audio clock, is refreshed between data processing to drastically reduce electrical interference. I havent heard the Rockna. More to follow. I wanted to know for anyone who has heard it have you also heard a DAC that approached it in sonic performance? us, over a 2 day test period come to the exact same conclusion. Now to include the HMS. Many competing DACs will have a more comprehensive display at this price and, more commonly still, an app designed for intuitive access via smartphone and/or tablets. I've sometimes heard people say that DAVE is too bright or analytical for them. It doesnt get too hot to touch. The DAC comes equipped with a single power supply, but can be augmented with a second discrete power supply to enable optimized power isolation between all major components. California crafted in-house from an aluminum billet, the enclosure feels solid yet refined. prefer to keep our test results among ourselves. The Chord Qutest DAC has the same DAC architecture and filters as the Chord Hugo 2. Actually the ChordHugo M Scaler and the Blu Mk. While it's an easy setup to wrangle at a show, it does seem like it wasn't doing either component any favours! You might want to consider adding one of Chord's Upscalers, either Hugo M scaler , or the Blu Mk. It is worth every penny. The MSB Renderer was developed using an in-house hardware design running an ultra low noise A5 processor for optimal audio playback performance. You absolutely can say that you prefer other DAC's to the Berkeley Alpha Reference. The DAVE is very resolving, but thinner tonally in comparison to the EMM Labs. However, there is nothing wrong with "taking" recommendations, which help me build a list that I can use to research then find a way to audition my shortlist. Digital: DACs, USB converters, decrapifiers, A healthy approach to understanding measurements, After being asked for the 308th time, Merv lists top 5 headphones, $1000 to the first to design a headamp using discrete components with better measurements than Magni 3+, http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f6-dac-digital-analog-conversion/chord-dave-29757/#post579518, (You must log in or sign up to reply here.). MQA decoding By for instance, the Select II is modular (customers can easily change modules in seconds)so it has the ability to quickly modify its inputs to allow for optimization of various interfaces. Pass Labs INT-60. Guess what I am trying to say is: preamps are important. We can operate our current DAC modules at up to 6 MHz for PCM and up to 50 MHz for DSD. This is a company that is All American and fiercely proud of that fact. It is a manual step which I forgot. Like others said, I'd try first an MScaler with DAVE. When you get the chance to hear Chord DAVE, try playing files bit perfect instead of upsampling them to DSD256 with HQPlayer. There are some tonal differences too, but what you prefer will depend on your other equipment and the music you like. Fully agree that it could come down to personal preference @RoriHope you have arranged auditions. Specifications: Type: Digital to analogue converter with volume control. I would have loved if you heard them in the same system for a direct comparison. Chord Dave DAC "Sealed Box Brand New" Never Opened !! Sound Media Group Pty Ltd Moving away from the actual sound of the music, one of my main takeaways from listening to the Discrete was the sense of timing it brought to music. what Im saying is that comparing dacs also must take into account of all the interface advantages of each particular dac. As the noise in my system keeps getting lower, the PM2 keeps reaching deeper to find even more musical engagement and purity in standard 16/44 files. You are using an out of date browser. DAC Comparison Reference DAC Modules 4x Hybrid DAC Clock The Femto 33 Digital Inputs 4x User Replaceable Input Slots Optical and Coaxial input module Included Analog Outputs Preamp XLR Output Module - 150 Impedance RCA output available with external adapter Analog Inputs XLR Analog Expansion Modules RCA or XLR Input RCA or XLR Output @smodtactical I would not take price as any arbitrator of quality, especially nowadays. A fully balanced, ultra-high precision, discrete ladder DAC architecture ensures each note tells a story. The other thing I've learned about the Chord Dave is it can sound very different depending on the interconnect and/or power cord used. Watts is avidly not reading this in anticipation of the video version he won't watch. It's pretty funny how everyone gives their personal pet recommendation with the utmost confidence that the buyer will like it. Both DACs connected directly to power amp using each DACs volume controle. September 6, 2016 in DAC - Digital to Analog Conversion. Does anyone have formula for that? At this kind of price, it puts Chord DAVE as being direct competition and I said that DAVE was the best DAC Id heard back in 2018. I can only comment on the Emm labs, if u can get a DA2 I think you will be happy "An audiophile is only done when they go to the great brick and mortar store in the sky" Ron Resnick Is it better than the Chord DAVE that I raved about a few years ago? Personally we have A/B 76 different digital front ends.. Cs | Critical Mass CS2s -> components, Isoacoustics -> speakers + subs | Adona Eris II rack on Herbie's titanium footers | Fully treated and dedicated 2 channel room. Dealer's should be required to state they're a dealer every time they post or have a disclaimer in their username. There hasn't been any direct comparison of them with Select II, Trinity DAC, CH D1/C1, Totaldac D12 etc in Hong Kong yet. There is a real sense of spectacle and scale when the MSB is in the system. I think people buy what they like. Theyre not limited by audio formats, sample rates, or even speed. Cs | Critical Mass CS2s -> components, Isoacoustics -> speakers + subs | Adona Eris II rack on Herbie's titanium footers | Fully treated and dedicated 2 channel room. While were committed to long lasting products that hold their value, we realize audio systems are always evolving. See what the reviews are saying. I believe it comes down to It was a speaker setup (as in my signature.) Set up is key, cables are super important, server is also What effect does reconstruction filter have? The DAC has two modes; multi-bit PCM and single-bit discrete DSD mode. This very pleasant sound I was experiencing, it could be argued, was to a large degree down to the choice of amplifier and what that added to the mix, and I do think this is a valid argument. https://www.linkedin.com/in/john-rothschild-70aab85/, Headphones and Personal Audio with Pitch Perfect Service. What didn't you like about the Dave? The reasoning behind the two clocks dealing with different frequency families is that music is mostly recorded within multiples of the 44.1kHz family or the 48kHz family and having a clock dealing with each family minimises loss. I agree with what you are saying but "far too often" the and this is borne out in the sound that this DAC brings to the party. Each clock is made up of two independent clocks but only one is used at any given time so as not to add unwanted noise to the circuit. Impedance 100 Low Gain setting. T&A Dac8 (for DSD512) or Lampi Atlantic for any native rate DSD playback. Directstream, Bricasti M1, Jeff Rowland Aeris, Chord Dave, and today I For the most part, I listened to the MSB through our LAB12 and Krell KST100 amps and TotalDAC D100 speakers. For such a high entry price I wouldn't take the gamble to go on some recommendation by a stranger whose tastes I don't know. So true jr, the discrete R2R Multibit dacs like the Terminator the Holo, MSB, Total ect ect have a life and a boogie factor to the music that DS dacs lack, and yes they do show up bad recordings. By had if for 2 years now. Yes, definitely, as it is those extra tiny little bits of detail that adds the cherry on top of an already rather splendid slice of musical cake brought out on tracks like the audio show mainstay Keith Dont Go from Acoustic Live by Nils Lofgren. Bespoke Audio Ultimate Silver TVC passive preamp, Totaldac xlr version D1-Drivers x2, Eisteddfod 340 & 840 amps, Magico S5 speaker, MSB Select DAC, MSB Select Transport, Nakamichi 700 XLE cassette deck, Taiko Audio Extreme Server, Tripoint Troy Signature NG groundbox, PLiXiR Elite 1500 isolation transformers. Amplification: Cyrus Mono x300Signatures. I've also learned that a DAC's performance will depend heavily on the music player. 2 are upscalers , not upsamplers. Click to expand. The end users ears are the only ears that count. You are using an out of date browser. The modular nature of the Discrete and other MSB DACs is very clever and I assume this goes a good way towards giving it such a neutral and detailed sound, where no one part is interfering with what the other is doing. IMHO an audio recommendation in a forum is just an advice on what is worth listening and the reason why we think so. With two prime DACs, we yield an unprecedented level of detail, reproducing the musicality, soundstage, and texture of an original performance, bringing the artist to you. After a year of listening to various components I'm content. The modular nature of MSB products allows you to have the bits you want and leave out those you dont, The display is a bit basic but it does what it needs to and you can see it from the other side of the room, Detail and transparency are the main features, Allows a real insight into the makeup of a track, Brings a sense of timing being bang on the money, Detail isnt a result of the higher frequencies being artificially pushed, Both PSUs are not absolutely necessary but once you remove one you want to put the other back in. All rights reserved. I cant help with comparisons of two of these DACs, but I did hear the Tambaqui up against the dCS Bartok and it was a pretty close call, but ultimately the dCS sounded more analogue and more immersive, I have heard the Dave and EMM Labs DAC2x up against aMakua that I subsequently purchased. Anyway, I switched out the valve power amplifier and put in its place the Krell KST100 (all fully fettled and brought up to a better than new spec by Krell in the States) with my intention being to see what effect was the DAC and what was down to the amp basically isolating the effect to a component. But DAVE also seems to me to highlight the original recording so if the recording is flat, the playback sounds flat (still with great accurate timbre) but if the recording really showcase the soundstage and the 3-dimensionality of the instruments and vocals, DAVE really portrays that well. Once populated, the circuit boards are made into modules and then placed inside the casework. Personally we have A/B 76 different digital front ends. Analogue Volume Control 1dB from 0 to 106 Deactivable by menu, Dimensions ChassisWidth : 432 mmDepth: 305 mmHeight without feet: 51 mm. The Base module has two outputs (high and low) depending on whether you are outputting to a preamplifier or directly to a power amplifier. I like Aqua Formula xHD and Totaldac Six. Wherever I read I see unanimous praise for the MSB Select II. The Discrete DAC uses two of these modules per unit. From beginners to life-long hobbyists to industry professionals, we enjoy learning about new things and meeting new people, and participating in spirited debates. 2 DAC | Audionet Pre G2 preamp | Audionet Max mono blocks | Vivid Audio Giya G2 Series 2 | 4 JL Audio Fathoms | Echole ICs /SCs / Siltech Classic 550L jumpers, Shunyata PCs / Eth. Ps Audio Directstream Dac Vs Auralic Vega Founded in 2004, Games for Change is a 501(c)3 nonprofit that empowers game creators and social innovators to drive real-world impact through games and immersive media Here is the list : Trinity Designs [Trinity DAC] TotalDAC [d1-Six] Aqua Acoustic Quality [Formula xHD] MSB Technology [Select DAC II Full Option . The PM2 is very special. 2001-2023 Head-Fi.org. I like all this attention to detail and the MSB website suggests a company that is massively proud of its American heritage and of the products they make. They both use FPGA for their decoding. Fair enough if you know some of the posters here and their listening preferences. However, there are two inputs for external PSUs and a little doodad/adapter that allows the use of one external PSU. Triangle Magellan Concerto 2< AQEverest< Vitus Audio SS-010 Mk2< AQDragon High Current< AQWELXLR< ChordQutestDAC w UpTone JS-2 & AQ Dragon Source < AQDiamond USB< InnuosPhoenix USBwAQ Dragon Source< AurenderN100H & AQ Dragon Source< NetGear GS105GESwitch w UpTone LPS1.2< Supra CAT8 Ethernet